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l 1‘ mil " i.( ii Chi: mun {hiai :. y itl A in» r mu SMVlSM in old-n to, 61l'l\eé-l some understand u“ wilt tin-t P10» Vince; and we rmuhml the flit onwbhhng‘ that w: wouni enusnvor to Nailélnllwny from Lakd Mpe v'inr to the Pacific (loan by 1890 ; 'hat we should expend I certain [amount per annum in British Columbia, after, the surveys were completed and lmeL adopted The line never ' was surveyed sufficiently to enable us i to reach that conclusion till lost your, and, as soon as we hadiniormation suflicienttoguide : us, we adopted the Burram Inlet route, and immediately advertised for tenders for the construction oi that line. The hon. the Minister of Public Works has spoken of our departure from the former terms 0! the con- struction of this road. Now, what was this departure 7 We had precisely the same pro- vision of land, and equivalent as to money ; only, instead of $80,000,000, we named $10,000 a mile, which would have amodnted to $26,000,000, and two-thirds of the land was to be controlled by the Government in respect of sales and management. We also then provided that, in asking for tenders, we should invite tenderers to say upon what additional amount they would require a guarantee of 4 per cent. for 26 years." The hon. gentleman also proceeded to say:â€" “ While we let our contracts between Thun- der Bay and Selkirk, with a view to get a road opened into that country, it was with the determination to adopt this method, and I ex- plained this? several times during my administration. We intended, when we had obtained full completion of the surveys, and finally adopted the route to the ocean, through British Columbia,to endeavourto place the entire work fi'om Lake Superior westward under contractâ€"the contractors as- suming the expenditure already incurred, and allowing themselves to be charged with it as part of the $10,000 a mile to be paid to them on the contracts for the entire line. The hon. gentlemen opposite, and the whole country, are aware that we solicited tenders in England for some months upon this ground, before hon. gentlemen opposite came into oflice; also that Mr. Bandford Fleming, the Chief Engineer, was instructed, while in London, to place himself in communication with contractors and financial men, and also to obtain the assistance of Sir John Rose, who, in many things, had been the active, ,( energetic and patriotic agent of the Dominion, with a view to the carrying out of this scheme.” I may mention incidentally that while I entirely a prove of all these efforts, the hon. gent eman was, I think, never called upon to lay upon the table of the House any correspondence that took place between his Government and these capitalists and contractors, and which did not result in their obtaining a contract. .Iion. Mr. Bunâ€"Did he ever refusei Sir Cass. Terranâ€"He never was asked anything so utterly at variance with the first principles of government as to bring down correspondence that could be attended with no possible benefit to the country, but be extremely embarrassing to the Government in its operations. Hon. Mr. Bunâ€"That is the true reason. Sir Ones. Tunasâ€"I do not Hesitate to say that a more unfortunate precedent in my judgment could not be set than foraGovem- ment to enter into negotiations with capital- ists to ascertain how far they could be pre- pared to take up a great work and carry it to completion and then bring down the corre- spondence, which could only reflect on the character and standing of the gentlemen interested, ‘and render gentlemen in future, in similar cases, cautious how far they would discuss negotiations with a Go?! ernment which would later give publicity to those negotiations. The hon. gentleman further said :â€"“ But I am informed that, notwithstanding all our efl‘orts, we signally failed in obtaining one single ofl‘er (there was one imperfect offer made) for the con- struction of the railroad on those terms, which were the grant of 20,000 acres and $10,000 cash, per mile, with a guarantee of 4 per cent upon such balance as might be re- presented as necessary. No terms could be more explicit ; it would be diflicult to men- tion terms more favorable, and yet the hon. gentleman seems to expect, by his speech, that the colohization scheme, with the 100,- 000,000 instead of the 50,000,000 acres and $30,000,000 current money, is somehow or other to succeed in getting the road built. His own remarks showed to-day that it is ut- terly useless at present for him to expect- British railway , contractors, or great financial firms to engage in any nilroad enterprise on this continent. Much of this is due to the want of confidence Which he tells us is experienced in financial circles in Britain, and a great deal is due to the unwise legislation in Canada and the Provinces with respect to railway lines, and to the fact that foreign capitalists have obtained little or no return for the money they have laid out in this country. I have made up my mind long ago that it will be exceedingly difiicult for a pcpulation of 4,000,000 so to conduct finan- cial transactions connected with the build- ing of that railroad of 2,600 miles, across an unknown and almost untrodden continent, in many places extremely diflcult. I frankly say now, after my experience in endeavoring to accomplish something in that directio that I fear we shall be incapable (Iii accomplishing anything in that direction at present. 3'1 need not say to the House that in what he said and anticipated, the hon. gentleman, I suppose, was sincere. I suppose when he made this utterance it was made in all frankness. The House will f0 \' readily understand the flcation I ex- pectcd to see spread ove the hon. gentle- man’s countenance on leenin that all that he lamented he had been one le to accen- plish in the ofilcial position be occupied in the House, his successors were in a position to present for the consideration of the House. I frankly concede, and in doing so 1 only do justice to the sincere, able and energetic eflorts of the hon. gentleman, that he did all that lay in his power during his term of administration to put this great work upon the foundation upon which Parliament on two separate occasions, and the people, had aflirmed it should be placed, namely, thatthe work should be done . by a private company, aided by grants of land and money. But, sir,” the hon. gentleman stated on another occasion that N it would have been very easy to commence to grade the road and so keep within the terms of the Union Act. But I scorned to practise any deception in the matter.” I assume, throughout, that the hon. gentleman was acting with en- tire sincerity, that in all those state- ments made to the House as to his great desire to advance this great national Work, he was giving candid utterance to his sincere opinion to the opinion that, whether sitting 0 one side of the House or the other, he wou d be prepared to glve an equally zeaous and hearty support to this policy. But in 1878 there was a general election, the result being that my Bight hon. triend was again charged with the important duty of ' administering the public af- fairs of this country, and again bro ht face to face with this great work. We found ourselves then called upon to deal with a work upon which a large amount 0! public money had been expended, and in a gay that Would prove utterly useless to the 'ork upnn which a large amount 0! Sir alumna Turnsâ€"Human is an agency may had been expanded, and in a that I do not at all despise. would prove umrly nucleus to the BierMnnolmH-Botm m the same un‘rm memml we" promptly I!“ II wt. ‘ - ~ wen-um} completion thv anny, 12h. Ire-:Iw!e~‘r10lfi hrd commit- 1‘ J n d,” v-mmzry He mid: ‘ «:2 hm: \Vc em as» (-re-(z‘ m ‘ unh- u mm! nod flu-Mm W: ‘w :1‘ mod :1 Hump“) taken t0 0|?!" ot’oil "outs the work un- Ct'r constrllo’ on to completion, and so sup- 11 'mi'm‘r “ as to make it ofiective for the ob- ; 13 w «tricolor. issued. “ runners-sienna. them use not is a position to efect r y (hangs cl ey, so hen. gontlomon op- ,wsite wil we came to Parliament to realiim tho icy oi utilising tho lands of the Northwest tor tho of obtaining the constriction 0! that vast work. There was every reason in the world why we should adopt that policy in the first instance, and mm to it afterwards. Every person knows that the development of this great territory was concerned in this gigantic undertaking, and that, irrespective of the question 0! tho connection of British Colum- bia, the and prosperity of Canada were to be promoted by the construction of the Railway. We also ielt that inasmuch as those lands were, as the leader of the late Government truly stated, desert lands, not- withstanding their fertility and enormous extent, and practically as useless as if in a foreign' country, so far as Canada was con- cerned, unless they were developed, and, as it was stated their development could only be accomplished by completing this great national work, we should come back to the House with our orig- inal policy. We were compelled to take it up as we found it, and go on with it as a Government work, and make the work upon which so much had already been ex- pended of use to the country. We asked the House to place at our disposal 100,000,000 of acres for the purpose of covering the expen- diture in connection with the railway. We felt. that by that means we should obtain the means of recouping to the Treasury every dollar expended on this work. Hon. gentlemen also know that we proposed to obtain the co-operation of the Imperial Gov- ernment. The hon. leader of the Opposi- tion occasionally indulges in a quiet sneer at the result of the efforts of this Govern- ment to interest the Imperial Government in this enterprise. Now, it is verv well. known that, armed by this House with the. power of utilising 100,000,000 acres in the Northwest, if they could so secure the conâ€" struction of the Canadian Pacific Railway, my right hon. friend the First Minister, the Minister of Finance and myself went to England in 1879. I do not intend to lay claim to any great results from our mission as regards the railway, but I think I may claim credit for a fair measure of success that attended our eii'orts, if not dur joint efi‘orts, in regard to the business oi’our respective departments. We found the press of England lndiiferont, if not hostile, to Can- ada. Very suddenly, however, a very strikin ,a very marked change took place, when arl Beaconsfield, the Prime Minister of that day, stated openly and in public, the enormous value of the great Northwest of Canada. I do not mean to say he was entirely accurate in all his statements, but at all events he was entirely accurate in the remark that the most lively imagination could hardly over-estimate the enormous value of the great Northwest, and the invit- ing character of the field it presented to the agriculturalists of every part or the world. From that day to this every person knows the marked and instantaneous nature of the change that took place in English public opinion, and in the amount of attention and interest concentrated in the Northwest. The people of this country owe to my right hon. friend this great, beneficial change, brought about through his personal communication with the Prime Minister of England. 'i‘nl vxsrr 'ro INLAND. Hon. gentlemen know we were then obliged to confess we were not able to bring to com- pletion any great scheme for the construc- tion of the railway. I venture to say We thought we made some impression on the Imperial Government while in England. I think ")0n. friend the leader oi the 0ppo~ sition, who sneer-ed at our statement that we 1 'btained the sympathy of the English I. e ment in relation to the Caâ€" nadian Pacific Railway, will find a strong morroboration .of our assertion in the intelli- gence received to-day with regard to the acâ€" tion of that Government. The Colonial Oflice have done what they never did before: published authoratatively a document recom- mending Canada as a field for emigration. (Cheers.) I do not know whether the hon. gentleman (Mr. Blake) has seen the news to-day or not, but I am quite sure that as a patriotic Canadian he will be glad to learn that the London Times announces the Imperial Government has promised to bring down a scheme of emigration, assisted by the Canadian Government. 80 the hon. gentle- man may feel he is not ’quite in a position to repeat, what I amrather afraid was to him a gratifying intimation, that the present Cana- dian Government had entirely failed in their negotiations._ Hon. Mr. Burlâ€"Allow me to remind my hon. friend that the present Imperial Government it Mr. Gledstone’s,and the Govâ€" ernment with which he and his colleagues had interviews with the luconefleld Govern- ment. Sir CRAB. Terrieâ€"Hy hon. friend will permit me to point out to him that he is strengthening my argument. From this very place last session, I stated that instead of this Government feeling anxious in conse- quence of the change of Government in England, we were advised and were of the belief that the sentiments of the members of the new Ministry were of the most liberal character in relation to Canada. My hon. friend will also permit me to inform him that since the advent of the Liberal Govern- ment to power the Right Hon. the Premier, my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture and myself have been in personal communi- cation with a number of members of the present Administretion, and have impressed nponth r minds the importence to the [2111- 1 piro, o the Government of Great Britain givin due attention to the resources‘ of t e greet Omsdlen Northwest, so thst I do not think my hon. -friend has made I eat deal by his sug- gestion. I frank y confess that in 1879 the time was not ripe for successfully floating the scheme in connection with the hundred mil- lion acres of hnd,but we sowed the seed, and we kept our eyes steadily directed to such means by which the condition of Can- ada might be greetly changed in relation to the work. My hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture has and perhaps the most happy stroke of genius ‘ ever shown by any Iinilter was that which be exhibited when he adopted the policy of showing the confidence the Government of Caneda had in their own country, by stating that parties with means, desirous of emigre- flng to this country, might select able and independent delegates to come here and ex- mine this country, and that the Government of Canada would pay their expenses. It would be utterly impossible to estimate the damage which has accrued to Canada by that single set. The whole sentiment of Great Britain in relation to this country has undergone a complete change, end when we went back to En land It the ccnclusxon of , the last session 0 Parliament, we found that Canada occupied in the Mother Country an entirely difi‘erent position from that which it oogypied fiyeaibefiwre. Hén. M}. Mwmmzuâ€"On Hanlan’s ac- count. A Infill or Gm P'Iu‘ V _ v r” ""1 we took up the work as we found it. We placed under contract the 127 miles of road which the leader of theJate Government had announded it as his intention to build, which he had assured the people of British Columbia he intended to build, and which under the terms with Lord Carnarvon, he was bound to place under contracmWhen we met Parliament with the statement that we were going on with this work, I think we scarcely met with the amount of aid and co- operation from gentlemen opposite to which we were entitled I do not wish to say any- thing that would seem harsh to any gentle- man on the other side of the House, but I really do not think the attitude which the Opposition assumed towards this Govern- ment, when We were only carrying out the pledges which they themselves had given over their signatures as Ministers, by their votes in Parliament, and by their declaration of policy in this House, in the country and to the Imperial Gov- ernment, was justifiable. As we were on] carrying out what they proposed, We had a right to expect to he met in a manner diflerent from that in which we were met by them. Hon. Mr. Bunâ€"You pw‘ Sir Camus Terranâ€"Hy right has. me says he rows in the same boat as we. I my any I am satisfied of this: Tint all the it») terest he can excite in the sporting' worida' five. Canada grater importance in lnglendrg stated a moment ago, that in 1879 run.“ meat placed at our disposal 1,000,000 «reel of lend ad I have already intlmeted that '6“ were not Able with that grant to m3. M? on] complete Icheme for the rapid construc- tion of the railway. In 1880 we agein not the House, and we met it with the some policy we adopted the your before, which was to fulfil the obligations devolved upon In through the acts of our predecessors. Although we had not propounded the policy of carrying on this work by the Government, n“. ¢...‘I- .... LL. _i,,1 m LIBERAL CHANG! 0! DAB]. The leader of the Opposition moved, and in making this motion he sub- mitted a resolution directly in an- tagonism to the policy of the Government which he supported, and to his own recorded utterances on the floor of this house, that we should break faith with British Columbia and with Lord Garnarvon, and that we should give, I was going to say, the lie to Lord Dufierin, who stated on his honor as a man that every particle of the terms of agreement with British Columbia were in a state of literal fulfilment. The result of the moving of this resolution was to place on the records of Parliament a vote oi 131 to 49 that good faith should be kept with British Columbia, but that we owed it to Canada to take up this work and prosecute it in such a way as we believed was abso- lutely necessary in order to bring it within such limits as would enable us to revert to the original policy of building the road by means of e. company aided by land and money; and had we not placed that section under contract in British Colum- bia, had we not vigorously prosecuted the 185 miles wanted to complete the line be- tween Lake Superior and Red River, we; would not have been able to stand here to- , day laying before the House the best propo- , sal for the construction of the road that has ‘ ever been made to this Parliament. (Cheers) Well, sir, I will give in conclu- sion the utterance of the hon. the leader of the late Government at the last session of Parliament. He said:â€" “ I shall not for a moment deny that we in- tended to carry out the terms of the arrange- ment with Lord Carnarvon, and nothing but the want of means would have prevented us from accomplishing that object, an object which could not but be desirable to any one who wished to see our trade extended.” Not merely that the obligation under the Carnarvon terms, but that the interests of the country rendered it desirable that the policy should be carried est. “ lie one who looked to the desinblo extension of our busi- ness can. the confluent could avoid seeing the it ends - ewe. eeuld possibly be obtained without too greet sacrifice it would in itself be desirable." ‘ Sir Jon)! A. MsooonsLnâ€"Who said that? Sm. Cnssus Tunasâ€"The leader of the late Government at the last session of Par- liament. The hon. gentleman further said: H Our policy was this : We believed that the Pacific Railway was undertaken as a great- national highway from one end of the Do- minion to the other, and that whatever ter- mination we make of it, near Lake Nipissing, it must be placed in connection with some other lines, and we provided for payinga subsidy to some connecting lines east of Georgian Bay. Our object was to have, as speedily as possible, a railway from the waters of the Georgian Bay, to have a con- nection with the Quebec lines through the Canada Central, as a connecting medium.” ' ‘ ' “ Our plan would form a through line to the Ottawa Valley, notably and notoriously the shortest line to the east from our westgn territories. Hon. gentlemen 0p- posite ha e given up all the advantages that the Province of Quebec and the Provinces east of that would have derived from our plan, and the President of the Council is not apparently at all disposed to avoid cheering himself because he adopted this course; he deliberately injured his own Province, and now laughs at the injury he has done.” The hon. gentleman will be very glad to find that the President of the Coun- cil, who on this side of the House invariably pressed in the strongest terms the prosecution of the eastern link with the Canadian Pacific Railway, is able now to cheer himself not only upon the attainment of the line to Georgian Bay, but on the steady prosecution of a line connecting the great provinces of Quebec and Ontario and all the eastern pro- vinces, by the shortest and most available means with the tertile territories of the Northwest. The hon. leader of the Opposi- tion hasindulged, as is his wont, in a good many sneers on this subject. He taunted our Quebec friends on this side of the House with having been left out in the cold, and with having been sacrificed. I trust, sir, that now these gentlemen‘are in a position to receive these taunts with a good deal of equanimity, they will find the hon. gentleman as ready to consider what the interests of this great eastern section of the country are, as he was when he supposed that they had not obtained the justice which he thought they were entitled to receive at our hands. . The , hon.leader of the late Government said he i was under the impression that he had done (or Quebec everything reasonable and proper, per, and he was quite willing to contrast it with what hon. gentlemen opposite had done. He asserted that their plan promised well for the prospects of the great cities of the St. Lawrence. He confessed that after hon. gentlemen opposite had committed themselves to the building of this road, the late Government were bound, as their succes- sors, to give effect tothe plan if possible, and they tried their best to do so. Their modification of this plan was all in favor of parties tendering. I have stated to the House that the modifications of the plan of . the hon. leader of the late Government greatly extended the consideration to be given to contractors, and he says in his own . terms they were all in favor of parties tender- ing ; therefore it should have produced w. ders, though it failed in this respect. , m deer or run K’KINIIJI Bonus. The plan of the late Government provided for the payment of $10,000 per mile for over 2,600 miles of road. It_ provided more. ”It 31 tab xwlfier WW3YWWJ lover the Georgian Bay branch of 85 miies, d o,‘ )r the l’omhina branch of 85 miles as well L” he hon. gentleman further said :â€" -‘ This would make the total $26,000,000, to which add three millions for surveys, accordingto the plan and the hon. gentle~ an’s statement, it would make $29,000,000, eaving $1,000,000 to he devoted to the east- ern end, to pay the greater portion of the subsidy of the Canada Central Railway if the late Government could have ob- tained ofiers."®rl invite the hon. gentle- man’s attention to this statement, because it clothes us, as far as he could, with his ap- proval of the dealing with this very matter. Now, sir, we have accepted an ofl’er,â€"abetter offer than that contained in the hon. gentle- man’s proposal, as I will show the House in the most distinct and conclusive manner, and I claim from the hon. gentleman that support to which I considered he was pledged to give to this scheme. I did not suppose, when the hon. gentleman in his place as leader of the Opposition, stated that if the Government would do a certain thing, he who said he would scorn to use any decep- tion; Ibelieved it, and accepted it, and I hold him to it, bound ,as he is by this declaration. When I have shown this House, as I will, that our termsâ€"the terms which we have laid on the table of the House, are much within the terms he pledged himself to support us in (cheers), I will claim from the hon. gentleman the fulfilment of his pledge. The hon. gentleman said the Government did not have any otfers made them. Well, sir, why did he not get any offers? “ It was because the position of this country was such for five years as to make it impossible for hon. gentlemen to obtain any offers in that‘direction ; and, sir, when, under the influences to which I havc adverted, the whole tone of the press of England changed, when a large body of people, the best class of emigrants that can come to this country, flowed in, alive with excitement with refer- ence to the Canadian Northwest (hear, hear and applause), when, sir, a movement, such as never previously took place, was occupy- ing the attention of capitalists as well as emigrants in England with relation to the Canadian Northwest, and when, under the fiscal policy propounded to this House by my hon. friend the Minister of Finance, the whole financial position of this country was changed, when commercial prosperity had again, under the influence of that change in the fiscal policy, dawned upon Canada (cheers); I say, sir, when the Government of Canada were able to present themselves to capitalists inthis country or the United States or in England, and show not that year after year they had to meet Parliament with an alarming deficit, and were unable to provide for it, and were adding from year to year to the accumulating indebtedness of the coun- try, not for the prosecution of public works that were going to give an impetustoour industries, but merely to enable the ordinary expenditure of the country to be met,â€"when that all this was changed, the aspect of atfairs in relation to this work was changed. When, although under the previous condition ment which he published all over the world, why, sir, the hon. gentleman might fairly assume that we could not obtain any otters either, but, as I say, under a changed policy, and when the Government had successfully grappled with the most difficult portions of this great work, and shown to the capitalists of the world, under the au- thority of this House that 100,000,000 acres of land were placed at our disposal for the prosecution of the undertaking, that we are not afraid to go on with its construction, or afraid to show that the construction of the Canndf‘Pacific Railway was a work which, however gigantic in its nature, however onerous an undertaking was involved in the Work, or however onerous the liabilities it imposed, was capable of fulfilment; when, notwithstanding all this, we showed that we wercnot afraid to go forward and prove to the capitalists of the world that we ourselves had some confidence in this country and in its development, and that we were prepared to grapple with this gigantic work, the aspect of atfairs was wholly changed. . would support them, that when the; rhd, he would withdraw that support we I; read that statement of the hon. gentle: I m. of things, my hon. friend opposite could not I obtain offers in response to the advertise? Well, sir, under these circumstances the Government submitted their policy to Parliament, and they were met by obstruction last session, they were met by a complete change of front on the part of the Opposition in this House and the country. The men who had for five years declared that they were prepared to construct the Canadian Pacific Railway as a public work, the men who had pledged them- selves fi) British Columbia. to construct it as a public work, and who had in this House, in every way that men could, bound themselves, called a halt' 1n order to obstruct the Government, when_we took the, only hreans by which we could remove the diffi- culty which had prevented the hon. gentle- man from obtaining any offers in reply to the advertisement that he had sent all over the country. I hold the advertisement in my hand. It was published on the 29th of May, 1876, and it says that “they invite tenders to be sent in before January, 1877, under the provisions of the Canadian Pacific Railway Act, 1874, which enacts that the contractors for its construction and working shall re- ceive lands or the proceeds of lands.” Mark the words “lands or the proceeds of lands.” They were not only to receive the lands, but they Were to receive, if it were thought de- sirable, the proceeds of the land. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"The hon. gentleman is not fair in stating that. I am surprised he should make the statement, for if he looks at the Act he will find that the arrangement was for the Government to sell two-thirds of the lands and "=th to offer the proceeds to the contractors . . Sir CHARLES Terranâ€"I am glad that the hon. gentleman has reminded me of it, for we leave the contractors to bear the entire cost of disposing of the lands, whilst the hon. gentleman undertook to pay the cost of disposing of two-thirds of the land, and then give the proceeds to them without any deducâ€" tion in the price. I am glad that he has mentioned it, because it shows how much greater than I am stating were the terms that he ofi‘ered in this advertisement. Then it goes on to say :â€"“ Or the proceeds of the land at the rate of 20,000 acres and cash at the rate of $10,000 for each mile of railway constructed,’ together with interest at the rate of 4 per cent. for 25 years from the completion of the work, on any further sum which may be stipulated in the con- tract, and the Act requires parties tendering to state in their offers the lowest sum, if any, per mile upon which such interest will he required.” That was th'e tender sent out. the advertisement that was published all over the world, in Great Britain, in this coun. try and, I presume, in the United States, and to which no response was made. I believe, under the circumstances to which I have'adâ€" vetted, that the time had come when we might deal with this matter from a better pasitiom _ X will frankly state to the House that ong'Sf the causes that led to the great change in the public sentiment in relation to the value of the lands in the Northwest anu ui rmlway enterprise was the wonderful success that was published to the world as having resulted from the syndicate who had purchased tln St. Paul, Minneapolis & Mani- tuba Railway and become the proprietors of that lines; The statements they were enabled '00 Duluth-hallowed not only the rapidity with GOING BACK ON THE RECORD. which railway construction in private hands could he "'l'l'lwll on, but it showed the val-lie of the. pumie lands in the Northwest and the extent to which they could be made valuable for the construction of such lines. It at- tracted the attention of capitalists to a de- gree that had a very marked influence un- doubtedly upon the public mind in relation to this question. I may further frankly state to the House, because we have nothing to conceal, that when we decided that it was desirable for us to ask- intending contractors and capitalists on what terms they would complete and take over the road of the Canada Pacific Railway, we placed our- selves in communication with all the parties whom we had any reason to suppose would have any intention to contract, for the pur- pose of getting their lowest possible ofier.‘ As my right hon. friend hes stated, there were Canadian and American capitalists made proposals for the construction of the remaining portions of the work. The Gov- ernment proposed to complete the line from . Thunder Bay to Red River; we proposed to 3 complete the contracts that were placed in British Columbia, in the cascade of the Fraser ‘ River, and to carry on the line, for it was an absurdity for the terminus of the Canada Pa- cific Railway to be at a place where there was only a depth of three feet of water, however advisable it might be for a tem- porary purpose. We proposed to complete ultimately 90 miles long of a line from Emory’s Bar, to be constructed down to the tidewster at Port Moody, the harbor selected by the hon. gentlemen opposite as the best terminus for the Canadian Pacific Railway. We are always ready and prepared to give all the credit and praise that we possibly can give to our friends opposite, and we evinced it by the adoption or the place which the hon. gentlemen in their wisdom had chosen as the terminus. __, fiéfi:fii: BLAKEâ€"YGB, you said that it was prgmatpre. _ - ... .-. . g. ___,_ Sir Cass. Terranâ€"I did say that it was premature, and before acting exactly in con- formity with that, we believed the North- west should be examined further before we adopted that route. We considered all the routes, to see which in our judgment was the best, but we thought further investiga- tion should be made before finally deciding. After doing so, I found, notwithstanding some advantages in the northern route, that we were prepared to endorse the wisdom of the hon. gentlemen as to where the port for the tgrminus should be. We then got proposals to complete the line from Thunder Bay to Red River, from Kamloops to Emory’s Bar, and ultimately down to Port Mo dy. We asked the parties upon what terms t y would undertake to build the remaining por- tions of the line from Nipissing to Thunder Bay, the distance being about 650 miles. We asked also upon what terms they would undertake to complete all the line from Red River westward to Kamloops and take over and run the whole road. Hon. Mr. Monmszâ€"Will you place a copy of these propositions as you made them uppp tpe tablg? " 1- ‘, ,, W. -144- r V .,_, , Sir Gnu. TUPPERâ€"Yes, I have no objec- tion to do so, but. it will give the hon. gon- tleman no additional information to what Ihave already stated as having been de- cided. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"And also the names of the parties_ to whom it was made? , L‘,AL__ - -_, r"_._v_ ,, Sir CHAS. TUPPERâ€"I may say to the hon gentleman that it was communicated. Hon, Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"Not by public ad. vertisement like mine. Sir CHAR“: TuPPnnâ€"It .was not, and I think we could have taken no better means of defeating the object we had in view than the very course that. the hon. gentleman had taken. It was enough to deter anybody from looking at us, seeing that no ofier could be obtained. We took a. which has been crowned with success. By placing ourselves in communication with par- ties who were likely to make any propositions, we have the pleasure now of laying before the House a proposition tarwhich in its char- acter and details I shall invite more closely the attention ot the House in com- parison with the proposal previouhly made. I have suted to the House that the contract which is now laid upon the table, and which this resolution asks the House to adopt, secures the completion and the operation hereafter of the Canada Pacific Railway by a private company, aided by a grant of money and lands upon the most tevoreble terms that have ever been submitedto this House, or that have ever been provided by any person in this country for the purpose of securing that object. I will give,the data and the definite information for the grounds on which I base that statment. I may state that I have had a careful estimate prepared and have laid it upon the table, of the amount of money required to complete all the road now under contract and those portions of the reed that are to be constructed by the Government, and it amounts in round figures to $18,099,003. -v V.-,--~,v_ .V Eon. Mr. BLAKEâ€"IS that inclusive of all that has been spent? Sir Camus Turpinâ€"It' 1! every dollar of expenditure that will come out of the Trou- ury of Canada for the existing contracts and fory the completion of the road that is to be built byjhe fionrmimnigz Sir Gus. Turnaâ€"-Every dollar of expen. dituro. It will be remembered that a year ago I made some remarks in this House, and I am told that some hon. gentlemen would like to have copies of the speech that I made on that occasion. I can only say that so far as the limited supply in my bands will enable me, I shall be very glad to comply with their wish, because I am not at all unwilling that they should read, mark learn and inwardly digest :ita contents, and, hold me responsible for them. N “Hon: Mr. Bibâ€"Are these figures intend- ed to represent the total cost of these works, including WEN; has been spent? Hon. Mr. BLAKEâ€"I thought I bud heard much of this before. Sir Cass. Turnip-The hon. gentleman says that he has heard it before, but I have mainly occupied the attention of the House with the more eloquent and able statements ofithe hon. gentleman opposite. I thought I had done him some justice, but after that reminder I will give the House directly some further statements which he will undoubted- ly receive with more pleasure than anything of a more original character. I may say to the House that we submitted to the House the estimate of the chief engineer. It was published in a pamphlet which was used in the debate. The hon. gentleman, a short time ago, repeated the words I used in regard to the character of the road, by stating that it was a degraded road. That was literally and specifically correct, for I stated to the House that in the position the Government then were with this gigantic work in hand, obliged to deal with it as a Government work, we felt-compelled, after constructing the road to the Red River as a first-class road, which we had carried out inaccordanoe with the specifications and plans of my hon. friend opposite, to carry the road across the prairie, of the very cheapest description of road that would answer for the business of the country, and be in the first instance a colonization road. The House will remem- ber that that estimate was for $84,000,000, for the work done in the mode in which we proposed to deal with it. That included $80,000,000 as the portion of money required for the road and the money expended upon surveys, { V 310:1: Mr. BLAKEâ€"D083 the $84,000,000 ll» clude that? Bh- m TVPmBÂ¥M MWWfl-hb A ms: nu, eluded the Pemblna branch survey, which was estimated at $1,700,000. I may state this estimate which I have laid upon the table differs in some measure from the esti- mate laid upon the table last year, and I will tell you frankly why. We stated that we had made our calculation upon the outside estimates. We determined not to be in a position to have to say to the House that the estimates upon which the money had been voted for the construction of the railway had been exceeded. Hon. Mr. Mscnszmâ€"Which contracts ? Sir CHAS. TUPpmâ€"All the contracts be- tween Thunder Bay and the Red River. Hon. Mr. MACKE'szâ€"Does the hon. gen- tleman say that he prepared these contracts, unglrthagt theyiwere prePared ip‘ his time? . Sir CHAS. TUPPlBâ€"I say that we twice postponed the advertisement in order to get thg Vmost gpecifjg details. Hon. Mr. MAcxmnzm-What I wish to how is whether the specifications were chmged between the issuing of the tendon and tho time when they were received? Sir Cum. Turnsâ€"A11 I can say is that before we sent out the specifications or en- tertained tenders at all, in addition to the time that elapsed between the change of Government and our entering into ofiice we twice extended the time for receiving tend- ers, so that the specifications might be made with sufficient accuracy. This estimate, that is now prepared by the present engineer, and. which I have laid on the table of the Houseâ€"- the $28,000,000â€"covers all the money that has been spent up to the present time, md all the money that in our judgment, in the light of the work that is now proceeding, will be required to complete it as required by the contract on the table. “Hon. Mr. Mameâ€"The Yale-Kamloops section? Sir CHARLES TUPPERâ€"The Yale-Kamloops section and everything. I have already stated that the amount that is put in for engineering, apart from the construction, is $1,600,000, and I draw that as a distinction between the $3,000,000 extending over the range of the Canada. Pacific Railway general- ly, and which has no relation whatever to the cost of this particular work that we are now handing over, as they have no relation in this sense, that they do not appertain to the construction of that particular work. Hén. Mr. BLAKEâ€"They were part of the expense of finding the route on which the road was to be built, andtherefore part of the cost of it. Sir CHAS. TUPPERâ€"If the hon. gentleman Will look at the Canadian Pacific Railway Act of 1874 of his hon. friend Mr. Mackenzie he will find that it distinctly states that these surveys are not necessarily to be paid for by the parties entering into the contract. ,, 11,,4 2- A Hon. Mr Monnnzmâ€"It says that is a matter to be provided for after the contract is entered into. Sir 01m. TUPPERâ€"I stated frankly that the laws provided that it might or might not be a 'charge on the contractors, but when it was left in that way it was not likely to be a charge on them. v. - 1 A” A1,. Hon. Mr. MAoKENZmâ€"It is a charge on the country at all_ovents. n“. .. . ,..fl. Sir CHAS. Terranâ€"This estimate which has been laid upon the table does not include the cost for surveys that a year ago I sepa- rated from the $80,000,000 required for the Canada Pacific Railway, but it does include all the other expenditures, as we believe that it had been made, and all that will be in- volved in order to bring that work to com- pletion. I will now draw attention to the estimates of the contract as laid on the table of the House. The estimated distance, and the distance which is contracted for and which is binding on the contractors, is 2,627 miles, and I may state that, suppose the con- tractors were to change the route, suppose they were to go north of Lake Nepigon inâ€" stead of south of it, and add fifty miles to the length of the road, they would not receive an additional dollar over and above the amount stated in the contracts It? Sir Guns. Turnsâ€"If they shorten it I shall be very glad to find that they do, and they will receive the amount stated in the con- tract it they do. We have chained the route- as I say. and the distance is 852 miles, but it is not very easy to locate a railway for construction quite as short as the chained distance. I think that will be readily understood. I will now take up in the contract all these propositions in the order in which they have been laid on the table in this House, the order in which they have been voted by this Parliament. A GOOD BARGAIN. I will take up the proposition of 1873, the au- thority that Parliament gave to the then Government to secure the construction of the Canadian Pacific' Railway. It was a cash subsidy of $30,000,000 for the 2,627 miles (I am putting the mileage upon the present route for the purpose of contrast), and the land grant of 50,000,000 acres,â€"â€"20,000 acres per mile for the Pembina branch, making 1,- 700,000 acres, and 25,000 acres per mile on 120 miles for the Nepigon branch, making 3,000,000 acres; so that Parliament in 1872 voted 54,7 00,000 acres. If you estimate the landet some particular value for the purpose of comparison.â€" Hon. Mr. Bumâ€"Hear, hear. Sir Cus. Turnsâ€"Call it one dollar per acre, and I am sure that, unbelieving as my hon. friend the leader of the Opposition is, and wanting in confidence as he has induced the leader of the late Government to become in the value of these lands, I am almost sure that, with the help of the Globe, I could work them up to the belief that these lands are worth a dollar an acre. I despair of getting them further than that, even with that p0- tent assistance, but I hope to bring them up to the belief that these lands are worth a dollar an acre. For purposes of comparison, then, we will call it worth a dollar an acre. This Parliament voted in land and money a subsidy of $84,700,000, and placed it at the disposal of the Government for the construc- tion of the Canadian Pacific Railway. How has that proposition been treated? Why, sir, as I have stated, a company was formed, a contract was made with them, under the terms of which they were clothed with all the powers and means that we could give them to command the money markets of the world, and they could not do it. the late Government has ever since poured unlimited ridicule on that proposition. He has always considered those terms inadequate to secure the construction of the great Paci- fic Railway. The hon. gentleman on the platform, in my presence, declared that we might as well ofier $10 as $30,000,000 and 50,000,000 acres of land to secure the Cana- dian Pacific Railway. From that day to thisâ€"not quite to this, but until a few months agoâ€"until the contract was made, every person in this country had been led to believe (our own friends as well as our op- ponents) that the hon. gentleman was right ; that those terms were inadequate, and the experience of our Government and the subsequent five years of the late Adminisâ€" tration had gone to prove that they were in- adequate; and the hon. gentleman will find that last year. when I was in extremis, when I we: met by hon. entlemen opposite, rais- l e hue and. cry t at we were going to ruin as country by the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway? and the necessity Hâ€"on. Mr. AnamNâ€"I thought it was he who Ipoiled it. .â€" mi , l”, 1_A:__ -1- Sir Annm Slumâ€"Suppose they shorten WHAT TIE COMPANY WILL PAY. was great to reduce as low as possible the construction of this work, the lowest estl- mate that I could submit to this Home, for what I submit is a degraded road, a. was $80,000.000. I now come to the proposi-‘vion. of 1874, and whatdoes that show? The ban. gentleman got this P rlia- ment to vote him for the construct-inn c‘ ,627 miles of the through line from Lake Ni pissing L» “nun“: 1,. . .- mum to Buri‘ard Inlet, for 85 miles ofthe Pembina branch and for 85 miles of the Georgian Bay branchâ€"2,797 milesâ€"all of which are con- tained in the Act, and all declared to be treated on the same terms, and entitled to the same amount as if they were‘ou the mam lineâ€" Hon. Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"1 was not aware that that Act declared Burmrd lnlcf f , he the terminus. “ Sir CHARLES Tanninâ€"The hon. gentle-.1112, ought scarcely to interrupt me with a captions objection of that kind, which in; nothing to do with the question. He kno“ s that, as a. matter of comparison, I must take a definite route, and he knows also first he was dealing with the Burrard Inlet mutt b9- ..... L- _-- 4,," ' cause he was dealing with the route th afi'jlm should decide was best, and he did decide that the Burmrd Inlet route wAs the best. The hon. gentleman should not, therefore, interrupt me with such a frivolous objection which has nothing to do with thesubject, but which is calculated to draw measide from the argument. Well, what did it amount to ? It amounted to this that with the shortest routeâ€" Mr. MAoumzuâ€"No. Sir Camus Turpinâ€"The shortest route, because if the hon. gentleman takes any other practicable route he will increase the distance. Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"N0. Sir Gamma Turnipâ€"Yes. Mr. Mwnszmâ€"Not the shortest, There are shorter routes. _ Sir CHARLES Tennâ€"I come to the Actâ€" the law put on the statute book by the lion. gentleman himselfâ€"the authority that this Parliament gave him to construct the Canadian Pacific Railway and what does ,it enact? It says that on this 2,797 miles, including the main line and branches, he got voted not by estimate but by authority of a statute to ‘use $10,000 per mile for that distance, which is $27,970,000, and he got authority to give 20,000 acres of land for every mile of that distance, which amounted to 55,940,100 acres. Hon. ML. Bunâ€"Not on every mile. Sir Cmnms Turner-On every mile, as the hon. gentlemen will gee by the Act of 1874, H031. Mr. BLAKEâ€"I théught the conirac‘t for the Georgian Bay branch was not based on} 13nd subsigy at 311.77 Sir Gunman T-UPPlRâ€"This was M Fos- ter’s contract, which gave 20,000 await land, and if the land could not be got mg the line, it was to be taken Anywhere else in the Dominion. Hon. Mr. MAouNlnâ€"We do not own the land there at all. Sir Gamma Turnsâ€"It had to be got in the Northwest. Sir 05mins Tmpnnâ€"The contract makes it a. doubtful question whether it could be obtained from the province of Ontario or not. At that time the hon. gentleman had some hopes of acting on the sense of jux'tice of the province of Ontario, and he might have ob- tained some land from them. Hon. Mr. MAonnzmâ€"That is perfectly well known. Hon. Mr. MAonxmuâ€"Formal application was made. Sir Camus Turnsâ€"Yes, but not success- fully; that Act also provides for four per cent. on such additional amount as would he required by the contractors in order to build the road. The hon. gentle- man published his advertisement for six months without getting any response. Now, how shall we arrive at the amount that was to be paid, in comparison with the othewg; tract? There is a. very satisfactory mode. The hon. gentleman let the contract for 85 miles, and although I am prepared to admit that that portion of the road is more dificult of construction than a great deal of the Pa- cific Railway, still the hon. gentleman will not deny that it is a very flair average. Mr. MACKENZIEâ€"I do. Sir Camus Terranâ€"Then, sir, I have lost confidence in the hon. gentleman altogether. Has the hon. gentleman forgotten that when the Foster contract was cancelled, and we stated that he was not as wise in letting this contract as he might have been, he scouted the idea, and said there was no difficulty what- ever, and that the contract was not abandoned for any such reason as was alleged. Mr. MAcanzmâ€"I could only state what the Engineers stated. Sir Camus Tarrsaâ€"I have no doubt, when the hon. gentleman made that state- ment, he believed it to be the truth. If the hon. gentleman will look at the line north of Lake Superior and examine the character of aconsiderable portion of it, and then exa- mine the character of the line from the can- yons of the Fraser River or from the foot of the Rocky Mountains and thence to Kam- loops, Emory’s Bar and on to Burrard Inlet, I think he will agree that the Georgian Bay branch is a fair average of the whole line. When the hon. gentleman advertised he obtained a tender from Mr. Munson ,of Bos- ton, at four per cent on $7,500, WE the Foster tender was four per cent on 500 and the other tenders were vastly beyond that sum. Mr. Foster became pos- sessed of the lowest tenderâ€"that is, Mr. Munson’s; a contract was made with him, and that contract I have in my hand. You will find that it provides for paying Mr. Foster $10,000 in cash per mile, 20,000 acres of land per mile, and four per cent for 25 years on $7,500. But I must remind the House that after Mr. Foster had gone to New York and exhausted every efiort he could make in England, he found he could not get a capitalist in the world to invest a dollar in his contract; so that when I take that contract as a fair average of the cost to be added to the amount for which the hon. gentleman had authority from Parliament to use, 1‘ think I have taken an average which every business man will admit is a moderate one. The interest, at four per cent, on $7,500 is $800 a. year per ile, and adding that to the amount I he? stated, and on the 2,977 miles we have 352 ,977,500. Hon. Mr; Bunâ€"Why do yofi chpitblize that sum ? Sir CHAS. Tanninâ€"I don’t capitalize at all, but it would have be paid in money as the other is paid. Let the hon. gentleman apply that principle to this $25,000,000 we are to pay the Syndicate, and he will find that it means a very much less sum too. The hon. gentleman will find that by the terms under which Parliament in 1874 authoriled the late Government to secure the construe tion of the Pacific Railway, the amount to be paid in cash was $48,947,600, which, with 55,940,000 acres of land at $1 per acre, would make,$104,887,500 the lowest amount, as the hon. gentleman must admit, which could 11-. present accurately the amount to be expend- ed upon that scheme. L. Itibeing six‘ o’clock the Spam chair. AFTER RECESS. Sir Cam. TUPPER, resuming, said‘b-ulra Chairman, when the recess took place i dealing vyith therques‘tion of the amount that Parliament had placed at the dts‘poui of my hon. friend the then leader tho Govern ment for the constructionof the 0mg: dian Pacific Railway, and I find, 8113“!“ have made a. slight mistake, which Itok earliest opportunity of correcting. 10333;} the distance 1r_om Iiipissing to party: lulltj the distance from Nipissing to “Baa-9:41 was 2,327 miles; I mustidd